The shots have been banned in some countries and even US states like Florida now put out warnings for people under 40 due to the danger.
Do they have different directions for different countries and states? Or will they ignore Caesar on that?
Anony Mous
JoinedPosts by Anony Mous
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It’s started COBE asking all appointed men if they are fully vaccinated
by Indoubtbigtime inthere is a huge problem now in all congregations as the gb stubbornly will not do the u turn on staying fully vaccinated that many hoped they would do.. all congregations around the world the cobe has to ask all ministerial servants and elders if they are fully vaccinated (meaning no more than six months since last shot).
there is a massive problem now with many many jdubs not getting their latest boosters and not wanting to stay fully vaccinated .
but more serious than that is how the gb painted themselves into a corner with these vaccine mandates.. most governments did a u turn on the vax mandates but the gb can’t get out of this one so easily .
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Was Satan in Heaven while Christ was crucified?
by Sharpie injust a shower thought came to mind.. while jesus was nailed to the stake/cross (take your pick) because of the witnesses lack of belief in hell.
does that mean according to witness doctrine that satan and his demons were in heaven while jesus was being executed?.
what about after jesus went to heaven?
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Anony Mous
It’s a great question. I think the doctrinal explanation is that until 1914 Satan was allowed into heaven but he also roamed the earth (since that is what he told Jesus during the 40 day wilderness test).
He was cast out of heaven in 1914. Witnesses like to explain that he was basically treated as if he were disfellowshipped (although he talks to Jesus/Jehovah/angels at various points in the Bible) but still lived in the same house, there are older publications that make the same analogy, because they need to make clear Yahweh approves of their doctrine.
So, where was Satan at that point? Could be anywhere. Does it have to make sense? Probably not, the whole biblical doctrine hangs together with metal wire and duct tape.
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So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?
by Terry inbits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.
sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.
this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.
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Anony Mous
A lot of the teachings come from the Adventist and Millerite movements, since that what was where CT Russel comes from.
The belief system was by no means unique in its day, but most branches died off for being too extremely anti-American in the day.
The entire movement that sprang from late 1800s Baptist’s (which includes the Amish, Mennonites and others as well) seems to have been in response to the fast industrialization and seemingly loss of morals in a world where things become easier and cheaper.
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Hell, what is it
by Anony Mous inso perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.
and the bible provides confirmation for this.
at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.
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Anony Mous
@disillusioned: Gehenna he meant it is a place of eternal conscious torment instead of the annihilation
I think it depends on the context. In the context of Matthew 5:29-30 I think he’s talking that it is better to cut your own arm/eye etc than go down to the literal place of Ben-Hinnom, where according to Jewish lore, people did worship other gods like Baal. Ben-Hinnom was according to some contemporary texts inhabited by a large number of “foreigners” in that day that likely practiced foreign religions, likely because of poverty prostituted themselves etc.
Baal, Molech and other nearby that still believed in Proto-Yahweh in that day were often demonized by Jews as having child sacrifices (propaganda not supported by any archeological evidence) but they also seemed to have “fun” practices like temple prostitution and alcohol.
Whenever Jesus is translated to hell, he refers to Gehenna or the valley of Ben-Hinnom as a literal place, which likely means he sees it as a place where you get to do “immoral things” and separate yourself from the Jewish god. Basically Jesus is saying it is better to mutilate yourself than “go down to the hood” and have fun with “those people” and everyone knew what he meant.
There are only a few places where Jesus refers to Sheol/Hades both for Lazarus and the Rich Man parable and the resurrection and which is a place commonly accepted as darkness/silence after death (a pre-heaven)
I personally think hell gets more of the Orthodox Jewish context of a place where you go practice another religion without (the single unified) God. That is still the closest you get to a Jewish concept of what Christians describe as hell today, you go do bad things and then you are tormented by the consequences and your conscience. Orthodox Jews don’t believe in eternal torment, even go as far as saying they don’t know what happens after death, therefore we need to do our best now. I think that is what Jesus in context of a Jewish teacher would have taught. The Hellenistic views of hell as a literal place of torment only come later as Christianity starting as a Jewish sect integrates more and more teachings from Greek and Romans.
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A Nearly Forgotten Hypothesis about YHWH
by peacefulpete inas we know there have been many proposals as to the origins of the god and name yhwh.
the folk etymology of ex 3 aside, there have been a number of suggested roots, many of which seem to be well argued and not without possibility.
however, of particular interest to me are those proposals consistent with the fairly well agreed upon south-eastern origins of the cult.
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Anony Mous
I think there are a lot of modern hypothesis and they may all have a piece of truth embedded into them.
I was recently also introduced to some of the Arabic pre-Islamic influences/origins on Judaism/Christianity. It seems a transliteration of the Jesus character was also introduced in pre-Islamic religious lore and versions of this character made it as far as Indo-China and became what we now know as the Buddha.
It seems Yahweh was indeed a Canaanite god (related to the older story of Marduk and Tiamat) and then bits and pieces of Babylonian, Egyptian, Persian, Roman and Hellenistic stories were all taken up into the modern day Bible to make up the story of Yahweh. It is very likely things were borrowed, especially names, from Arabian sources as well as things were translated and retold.
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Hell, what is it
by Anony Mous inso perhaps we all heard the jw story about jesus talking to gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.. according to jw.org: tradition relates that the valley of hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage.
and the bible provides confirmation for this.
at jeremiah 31:40, for example, the valley of hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” there was also the “gate of the ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the valley of hinnom at its juncture with the kidron valley.—nehemiah 3:13, 14.. i think i heard that in the study of the greatest teacher book first.
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Anony Mous
So perhaps we all heard the JW story about Jesus talking to Gehenna and he was referring to a place outside the city where there was a dump burning refuse and everyone knew what it meant.
According to JW.org: Tradition relates that the Valley of Hinnom thereafter became a place for the disposal of garbage. And the Bible provides confirmation for this. At Jeremiah 31:40, for example, the Valley of Hinnom is evidently called the “low plain of the carcasses and of the fatty ashes.” There was also the “Gate of the Ash-heaps,” a gate that seems to have opened out onto the eastern extremity of the Valley of Hinnom at its juncture with the Kidron Valley.—Nehemiah 3:13, 14.
I think I heard that in the study of the Greatest Teacher book first. However recently learned that this is not at all true. There was no refuse dump that continuously burned, there is no literary, biblical or archeological reference to such place, and a place like that would leave quite a footprint you’d think. If you read the scriptures, it doesn’t refer to the Valley of Hinnom, it doesn’t even refer to a dump.
The word “evidently” is the tail wagging the dog and it is a far stretch to say that the Gate of the Ash Heap which is a JW mistranslation of the Dung Gate which was a small door and wasn’t built until the 1500s is actually what they say it was used for.
The only reference we have in the Bible to the valley of Hinnom is Jeremiah 19:2 and go out to the Valley of Ben Hinnom, near the entrance of the Potsherd Gate (apparently also for refuse of broken earthenware). For those that can read a map, the Potsherd Gate was on the south side of Jerusalem. The KJV translated that to East Gate and many translations used Dung Gate later to match the gate on the east. Reason being is that most Bible translations aren’t literal, they have a story and canon to uphold so major changes and contradictions in original texts are filtered out by perpetuating more changes where deemed necessary to match the story.
So where does Valley of Hinnom being a continuously burning dump come from - 1200AD Rabbi Kimchi pretty much is the person that introduced the concept to this place. Note that by this time, Judaism had already integrated Hellenistic viewpoints of Hell (Hades and Tartarus) into its theology, unlike around early Christian time where they may have heard about but the scriptures don’t quite illustrate an eternal tormenting place. The conflation of Gate of the Ash Heap or Dung Gate comes later, with “archeologists” and translators sent out in 1500s-1800s with a shovel in one hand and a Bible in the other, confirming archeological finds on the basis of the Bible, not realizing some things weren’t quite the originals they thought.
So even about the simplest of things, JW seemingly can’t keep it straight, using apocryphal stories and opinion from a Rabbi to support stories they have told over and over again. Given modern research, they could simply gloss over these mistakes and misconceptions and quietly leave it out, nobody would be any wiser. Instead they double down on things people can quickly find are medieval apologia.
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Seems to be a census on vaccine status
by Indoubtbigtime inthe upcoming km school for all elders and servants is going to be in person only with no provision for video conferencing.. only fully vaccinated may attend.
meaning if you missed your last booster you are no longer fully vaccinated.. every coordinator of body of elders has to ask every single ms and elder if they have kept up with all their boosters and are fully vaccinated or they can’t attend.. this seems to be a census the gb want to know how many are keeping up with booster shots.
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Anony Mous
HIPAA laws do not apply to voluntarily disclosed information, that being said, it is none of their business.
It’s a great excuse to get away from it all, say you don’t agree with the shots is not disfellowship offense yet, but it is a great way to get removed from elder/servant without any other excuses.
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Password Leakage?
by Nikolaus ini got a message that my password on this site has been part of a leakage.
is this known?
where can i change my password?.
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Anony Mous
Do you re-use your password anywhere else? I have a password manager with individual passwords for most sites and this site hasn’t been breached according to its reporting. So be careful, change your password only on this site, don’t follow the link in the e-mail you got.
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Police confirm homicide at Jehovah’s witness center in Colorado after shooter 'threw Molotov cocktail into building'
by TakeOffTheCrown inhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11573103/active-shooter-throws-molotov-cocktail-jehovahs-witness-center-colorado.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top.
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Anony Mous
Weren’t welcome is a euphemism for disfellowshipped, as I said in the other thread, I think the reason they were there so early with only a few people is because they were probably having a JC or related discussion and instead of giving proper mental health references, the elders tried their own version of therapy to get them disfellowshipped or reinstated, meaning a tongue lashing of all their shortcomings and a good dose of Bible thumping guilt, tripping a wire in the mentally unstable brain.
Obviously the elders contacted the branch first, given the quick response from the branch and got told not to talk and not publicly disclose why they were there and what actually happened. Basically zip it and let us handle it, they were crazy apostates out for revenge.
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A though on the shooting tragedy
by enoughisenough ini am thinking about how i read in the reports that the shooter had contacted another person expressing desire to go back .....and was told to contact an elder.
the man seemed to me to be reaching out for help and got put off...and since he had called this person, he was put off by someone he felt could make a difference.
i would hate to be in the shoes of the person the shooter called...for i would feel so guilty, thinking i could have said something else and none the tragedy would have happened.
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Anony Mous
If he was a nut job, the elders likely knew he was a nut job and didn’t refer him to proper help, instead it seems they excommunicated and shunned him likely exacerbating the issue. Given the time and descriptions it sounds like he was there perhaps on a judicial committee or review to reinstate and wasn’t happy with the outcome?
Not sure about the wife, seems she was either an accomplice or a victim, depending on who you ask, but it seems this was premeditated and the wife didn’t warn anyone that her husband was making a bomb at home, making her at least an accomplice to that part of it.
The WTBTS also made sure to refer to them as ex-JWs meaning they want to officially distance themselves from them for some reason, great compassion there.